Michael Harrop
Active member
Have done FMTs from 15 different donors prior to this one.
Last one was from HumanMicrobes.org, Donor OR_JO_1993.
HumanMicrobes.org results tracking.
After: Switched peanuts for eggs. No longer reliant on cauliflower.
After: No change.
Benefits: Greatly improved stool quality and IBS symptoms. I've had dry skin for many years, but it completely reversed the recent extreme dryness that I was experiencing. It removed dependencies on various foods & supplements, and expanded tolerances, including protein tolerance. Mild to moderate improvements to fatigue, sleep, sex drive.
Detriments: None, besides the fact that enemas seem detrimental so I stopped doing them.
Brain function & fatigue are still poor and are the main issues.
It's much easier to protect from damage than it is to heal after damage occurs. Many of HM's top donors could have protected me from taking severe damage if I had access to them earlier. But they're not triggering the healing effect that some rare donors have. The donor's microbes are also not completely replacing the existing ones. So the damage I took from antibiotics and a probiotic, and the obvious changes they caused to my stool, are not being completely reversed/healed.
It has happened with a few donors now that the first dose of their stool seems to have the largest impact on my own stool, to where mine becomes similar to theirs, but then my stool largely returns to its original state despite continued dosing.
This is a great donor. They should be very safe, and would likely be highly beneficial for many people, but overall, they were only mildly beneficial for me. Sure, they didn't meet the "ideal" criteria I'm looking for, but they come close enough (as do a number of others) that I think there is now enough evidence (both from my results and other HM recipients) that there needs to be a focus on Step 3 here https://maximiliankohler.blogspot.com/2019/12/fmt-roadmap-proposal.html - overcoming colonization resistance, probably by clearing of the existing microbiome/mucosa.
I know that more effective donors exist, and I'll keep looking for them, but even if I can find someone who perfectly meets the ideal criteria, and they turn out to be highly effective, I think that they're so rare that they can't be depended upon. There are plenty of these very healthy people with "good enough" stools, who can probably be highly effective for most people if we can figure out a way to overcome colonization resistance. So I think that needs to be the focus now.
Currently, we're just throwing an incredibly complex ecosystem onto another well-established one, and hoping some things stick. The limitations of this approach are now fairly clear.
Of course I have no tools (funding, researchers & lab) to work on colonization resistance, so I'll continue looking for a super-donor since that's the only option I have.
Furthermore, I would be very interested to see if the results from this type of donor differ if only the phages are extracted and used. I've said in the past that I think that many cases of gut dysbiosis may largely be due to missing phages https://humanmicrobiome.info/antibiotics/#virome resulting in uncontrolled bacterial growth. So if you're adding both phage & bacteria, half of what you're adding may be unwanted. I wonder if softer stools contain fewer phages, or at least "fewer within certain groups of bacteria".
I think this is my problem: https://forum.humanmicrobiome.info/threads/people-with-alzheimers-seem-less-likely-to-develop-certain-types-of-ca.616/ - Intestinal permeability and suppressed immune system resulting in cognitive deficits, fatigue, and more.
I tested two types of stool. A daily dose of about 1/2 tsp, first thing in the morning with tea and water, 2 hours before first meal. I also tried taking it with almond milk & honey.
I started with 1x/week enema with 1/2 tsp stool, but I stopped due to it seeming only detrimental.
I tested various methods of boosting the FMT and I don't think they had a major impact.
Oral route was mildly helpful but the enema seemed detrimental, if anything, and that's not really new, so I'm going to stop doing them. I'm also not the only person who has reported that lower-route is bad and upper-route is good.
I did another week of oral route with the first type of stool, and it didn't seem to give significant benefits. It is possible that it wasn't entirely the enema's fault, and it was more so that "the new microbes lost the battle".
I tried the other type of stool and didn't see major changes. Overall, I experienced good-but-not-full benefits to skin dryness (no longer have to coat my whole body in moisturizing lotion after a shower), and an increase in sex drive.
I stopped after 16 FMTs (10 days with one type of stool, 6 days with the other, 2 days with BAS). One reason is that I wanted to see if the first FMT after a long pause would trigger the change in stool type again. Another reason is that it didn't seem to be having further benefits.
I added BAS for two days before the end of the pause and it seemed to have boosted the FMT.
My ideal foods and supplements changed. I was no longer dependent on various foods and supplements. Once I got a decent notion of the changes, I restarted the FMTs (after 8 days) with BAS.
BAS didn't seem to boost the overall effects. It may only boost bile-related microbes, and maybe only for some donors.
As soon as I decreased imodium by even a little bit (1 out of 3 per day) my stool quality got much worse and so did systemic symptoms.
I also overdid it with the protein and that took a while to recover from, and necessitated more FMT to recover.
Later on I tried one of my problem foods, and this donor's microbes definitely helped, but the microbes that feed on the problem food eventually won out.
It seems very clear to me that there are layers. FMT is basically "You have bad poop on your hand so you smear good poop on your hand". You're not getting rid of the bad poop; you're just adding some good stuff to the surface layer. You have a diseased microbiome deeply embedded in the gut mucosal lining, and you're lightly pouring a healthy microbiome over it and hoping some of it takes hold. We need to remove that diseased mucosa.
Another appropriate example seems to be a thin layer painted over magma. As soon as you adequately disturb the magma, your top layer cracks and everything goes to hell.
Related discussions:
Last one was from HumanMicrobes.org, Donor OR_JO_1993.
HumanMicrobes.org results tracking.
Prior to FMT:
- Weight 165lbs.
- Chronic sinus stuffiness.
- Sleep quality still not great.
- Sex drive still very poor. Probably due to overall poor circulation, which is probably playing a role in other symptoms such as low brain function.
- Brain function still quite poor.
- I ended the previous report with a milk fast. I reintroduced foods one at a time to see which ones were causing the fatigue, and I moved those to the end of the day. So I was back to a normal diet. But my protein tolerance continued to decrease.
- Fatigue has been gradually worsening.
- Had to stop peanuts and add Cholestyramine (BAS). Even with BAS, I was getting heavy fatigue from eating/drinking anything with fat. This was reversed as soon as I added back cauliflower to my diet, which also allowed me to add back peanuts.
- Back to taking iron most days.
- Skin has gotten super dry recently (probably from stopping imodium & cauliflower). It feels like my body is deteriorating/disintegrating. I had to start using a ton of moisturizing lotion for my whole body.
- It seemed like I was able to stop imodium, but I added it back and don't want to mess with it until I get big benefits from a donor.
Diet:
Before: Cheese, peanuts, fruit, tomatoes, white sweet potatoes, cauliflower, almond milk, honey, olive oil, olives, spices.After: Switched peanuts for eggs. No longer reliant on cauliflower.
Supplements & meds:
Before: Creatine, 5k vit d, 25mg zinc, 65mg iron (ferrous sulfate), imodium.After: No change.
Summary:
I'm leaving out details due to lack of reciprocation, and disreputable people & groups leeching off of me.Benefits: Greatly improved stool quality and IBS symptoms. I've had dry skin for many years, but it completely reversed the recent extreme dryness that I was experiencing. It removed dependencies on various foods & supplements, and expanded tolerances, including protein tolerance. Mild to moderate improvements to fatigue, sleep, sex drive.
Detriments: None, besides the fact that enemas seem detrimental so I stopped doing them.
Brain function & fatigue are still poor and are the main issues.
It's much easier to protect from damage than it is to heal after damage occurs. Many of HM's top donors could have protected me from taking severe damage if I had access to them earlier. But they're not triggering the healing effect that some rare donors have. The donor's microbes are also not completely replacing the existing ones. So the damage I took from antibiotics and a probiotic, and the obvious changes they caused to my stool, are not being completely reversed/healed.
It has happened with a few donors now that the first dose of their stool seems to have the largest impact on my own stool, to where mine becomes similar to theirs, but then my stool largely returns to its original state despite continued dosing.
This is a great donor. They should be very safe, and would likely be highly beneficial for many people, but overall, they were only mildly beneficial for me. Sure, they didn't meet the "ideal" criteria I'm looking for, but they come close enough (as do a number of others) that I think there is now enough evidence (both from my results and other HM recipients) that there needs to be a focus on Step 3 here https://maximiliankohler.blogspot.com/2019/12/fmt-roadmap-proposal.html - overcoming colonization resistance, probably by clearing of the existing microbiome/mucosa.
I know that more effective donors exist, and I'll keep looking for them, but even if I can find someone who perfectly meets the ideal criteria, and they turn out to be highly effective, I think that they're so rare that they can't be depended upon. There are plenty of these very healthy people with "good enough" stools, who can probably be highly effective for most people if we can figure out a way to overcome colonization resistance. So I think that needs to be the focus now.
Currently, we're just throwing an incredibly complex ecosystem onto another well-established one, and hoping some things stick. The limitations of this approach are now fairly clear.
Of course I have no tools (funding, researchers & lab) to work on colonization resistance, so I'll continue looking for a super-donor since that's the only option I have.
Furthermore, I would be very interested to see if the results from this type of donor differ if only the phages are extracted and used. I've said in the past that I think that many cases of gut dysbiosis may largely be due to missing phages https://humanmicrobiome.info/antibiotics/#virome resulting in uncontrolled bacterial growth. So if you're adding both phage & bacteria, half of what you're adding may be unwanted. I wonder if softer stools contain fewer phages, or at least "fewer within certain groups of bacteria".
I think this is my problem: https://forum.humanmicrobiome.info/threads/people-with-alzheimers-seem-less-likely-to-develop-certain-types-of-ca.616/ - Intestinal permeability and suppressed immune system resulting in cognitive deficits, fatigue, and more.
I tested two types of stool. A daily dose of about 1/2 tsp, first thing in the morning with tea and water, 2 hours before first meal. I also tried taking it with almond milk & honey.
I started with 1x/week enema with 1/2 tsp stool, but I stopped due to it seeming only detrimental.
I tested various methods of boosting the FMT and I don't think they had a major impact.
Oral route was mildly helpful but the enema seemed detrimental, if anything, and that's not really new, so I'm going to stop doing them. I'm also not the only person who has reported that lower-route is bad and upper-route is good.
I did another week of oral route with the first type of stool, and it didn't seem to give significant benefits. It is possible that it wasn't entirely the enema's fault, and it was more so that "the new microbes lost the battle".
I tried the other type of stool and didn't see major changes. Overall, I experienced good-but-not-full benefits to skin dryness (no longer have to coat my whole body in moisturizing lotion after a shower), and an increase in sex drive.
I stopped after 16 FMTs (10 days with one type of stool, 6 days with the other, 2 days with BAS). One reason is that I wanted to see if the first FMT after a long pause would trigger the change in stool type again. Another reason is that it didn't seem to be having further benefits.
I added BAS for two days before the end of the pause and it seemed to have boosted the FMT.
My ideal foods and supplements changed. I was no longer dependent on various foods and supplements. Once I got a decent notion of the changes, I restarted the FMTs (after 8 days) with BAS.
BAS didn't seem to boost the overall effects. It may only boost bile-related microbes, and maybe only for some donors.
As soon as I decreased imodium by even a little bit (1 out of 3 per day) my stool quality got much worse and so did systemic symptoms.
I also overdid it with the protein and that took a while to recover from, and necessitated more FMT to recover.
Later on I tried one of my problem foods, and this donor's microbes definitely helped, but the microbes that feed on the problem food eventually won out.
It seems very clear to me that there are layers. FMT is basically "You have bad poop on your hand so you smear good poop on your hand". You're not getting rid of the bad poop; you're just adding some good stuff to the surface layer. You have a diseased microbiome deeply embedded in the gut mucosal lining, and you're lightly pouring a healthy microbiome over it and hoping some of it takes hold. We need to remove that diseased mucosa.
Another appropriate example seems to be a thin layer painted over magma. As soon as you adequately disturb the magma, your top layer cracks and everything goes to hell.
Related discussions:
- FMT Clinics
- I included all required info