Modulate the microbiome with raw human/cow milk as alternative to FMT?

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Asclepius

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Human milk
Due to the somewhat limited research and availability of FMT I was thinking of alternative ways to perform a transplant or modulating the gut. One idea could be to use human breast milk since it contains commensal bacteria from the gut and is literally intended to colonize a person. Bacteria from the gut translocate via the the entero-mammary pathway and the rumen-mammary pathway to the mammary glands. That way the baby can get microbes from the mother via the milk which will colonize its gut. From my understanding though, this does not contain the full microbiome of the mother so it's not as complete as a proper FMT but maybe it could still be useful.

The benefit of this over FMT is that you can drink it and have the bacteria colonize everything from your oral biome all the way down to the large intestine. It can also be consumed in greater quantity than FMT which might be an added benefit. I don't know if there are already mothers selling their milk to other parents who are unable to breastfeed, but if that's the case then this should already be possible to experiment with. Of course the same principles of donor selection for FMT should be applied here as well though to avoid the transfer of diseases and antibiotic resistant bacteria etc. So choosing a donor should be done with caution.

Cow milk
Another alternative with less stigma and higher availability would be to simply buy raw milk. Cow microbes are of course different from human's but this is how we consumed milk up until the invention of pasteurization. Assuming the milk comes from a serious farm with high sanitation and no antibiotic use, raw milk should be fine (but don't take this for granted, campylobacter, salmonella, antibiotic resistant genes etc. are of serious concern). Raw milk has been found to boost lactobacillus abundance, SCFA production and microbiome richness: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32438623/
Maybe it's not as potent as human milk, but it seems to be enough to modulate the human microbiome and perhaps it can outcompete problematic bacteria and reverse dysbiosis to some degree. There are at least anecdotal evidence online of people who's seen improvement with IBS, inflammation, autism etc. Since it's so accessible it is probably the easiest thing to experiment with and it can also be consumed in very large amounts to really challenge a problematic microbiome. There's no guarantee it will work, but at least dose or availability won't be a problem.

I just had an FMT done recently so I won't do any experiments myself for a while but might consider trying this in the future.


What are your thoughts on these ideas?

Is anyone willing to try?

Has anyone already tried raw milk?

If anyone decides to try any of this, please share you experience here to let other people know about your results or any experienced side effects etc.
 
I drank raw cow milk for years. It's not even as powerful as a good probiotic.

Other people have drank breastmilk and said the same thing.

Asclepius said:
I don't know if there are already mothers selling their milk to other parents who are unable to breastfeed
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There are websites and Facebook groups where moms sell their milk. Could be hard to verify it's real. Also, there's evidence that the health of the mother matters. https://humanmicrobiome.info/maternity/#breastfeeding

Breast milk from unhealthy mothers is bad/worse/unhealthy: https://doi.org/10.1093/ecco-jcc/jjy186 "The profile of human milk metabolome, cytokines and antibodies in inflammatory bowel diseases versus healthy mothers and potential impact on the newborn (2018)"
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I've also ate a 100% raw diet, including raw meat and raw fermented meat. I've tried everything. Nothing comes close to FMT.
 
I gave raw cow milk a try and did 1L per day for 5 days. It seemed to have a somewhat calming effect on my gut but it also gave me brain fog and slightly increased fatigue. My sleep felt deeper and my stool became slightly softer and smelled different. Not in a bad way though, it just smelled like it had higher microbial diversity. No changes in autoimmunity symptoms.

Since it increased my brain fog and fatigue I decided to not continue and all changes reversed after quitting. So raw milk did seem to have some impact on the microbiome, but it was nowhere near the effects I've experienced from FMT.
 
Asclepius said:
I gave raw cow milk a try and did 1L per day for 5 days. It seemed to have a somewhat calming effect on my gut but it also gave me brain fog and slightly increased fatigue. My sleep felt deeper and my stool became slightly softer and smelled different. Not in a bad way though, it just smelled like it had higher microbial diversity. No changes in autoimmunity symptoms.

Since it increased my brain fog and fatigue I decided to not continue and all changes reversed after quitting. So raw milk did seem to have some impact on the microbiome, but it was nowhere near the effects I've experienced from FMT.
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Which brand/source did you use? My worry is that most of the cattle population may have the exact same dysbiosis as humans due to widespread usage of antibiotics in factory farming. So cows born from that lineage may not have great health or microbiome

Michael Harrop said:
Other people have drank breastmilk and said the same thing.
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Do you still have links to these reports by chance?
 
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nelson said:
Do you still have links to these reports by chance?
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Unfortunately, most people don't seem to see the value in documenting their experiments in a systematic manner that can be found & searched by other people. They just leave random comments here and there.
 
nelson said:
Which brand/source did you use? My worry is that most of the cattle population may have the exact same dysbiosis as humans due to widespread usage of antibiotics in factory farming. So cows born from that lineage may not have great health or microbiome
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I got it from a local farm, if you want raw milk you'll have to search for a farm near you that sells it. Unfortunately most cattle get treated with antibiotics so you'll have to ask the farmer about it.
 
I did a couple small-scale attempts at raw milk and thought I'd give a brief overview. Conditions: depression, dust mite allergies, consistent Type 5 - 6 stools. The working theory I'm using is attempting to acquire hypothesized missing microbes. So, I figure I need raw milk from a lineage of cows not exposed to antibiotics or factory farming practices.

First try was just a quart over 3 days. Half a cup the first day, 2 cups the next day, and 1.5 cups the final day. There was definitely a noticeable bacterial load, since I experienced a similar mild GI discomfort as when I've drank probiotics. Immediate mood was confounded by external events. I didn't notice any lasting effects on mood or Bristol scale. I procured raw milk from Claravale Farms. However, on their website, they note that they do sometimes use antibiotics as needed for cows and explain their reasoning. So perhaps this is not the best source.

Second try involved 1 pint of raw first colostrum on the first day, 1 pint of regular colostrum on the second day along with 1 cup of raw milk, followed by 3 cups of raw milk per day for 5 days. Less GI discomfort this time compared to the first experiment. There may have been a positive effect on mood during this week, but it was unfortunately again confounded by external events and could be due to the stress response ("eustress"). No lasting effect on mood or Bristol scale. I procured these products from Amos Miller Farm via UdderlyLA. Amos Miller is an Amish farmer, and claims:

All of our animals are born and raised on the same farm and are VACCINE-FREE, soy-free, GMO-free, antibiotic and hormone free throughout their lives from birth. Our commitment to 100% chemical-free farming means that we are dedicated to environmentally sustainable production practices, exactly how it was done before the advent of “modern” farming. The farm’s land is never sprayed with harmful chemicals, only natural fertilizers are used, necessary to build healthy soil.
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Elsewhere it's stated the cows are Jersey's or Jersey crosses, so hopefully minimally industrially farmed lineage.

I'm going to have another try, probably doubling the dosages. The idea behind the colostrum is to try to replicate, as closely as possible, the sequence that normally occurs during early breastfeeding. Would like any suggestions for how to make this more effective. I might try other animal colostrum they offer such as Buffalo. My initial thought is to have at least a couple days of only drinking the colostrum/milk and not eating anything else, with the idea of starving the existing microbiome and attempting to get the milk microbiome to stick. Not sure if this logic is sound.
 
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