Michael Harrop
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Is a million dollars enough for your poop? Highly effective stool donors will now be paid 1 million dollars for their poop. And offering a half-a-million-dollar reward for anyone who recruits one. (Jul 2024, HumanMicrobes.org) Blog
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I just found out about this referral reward. I skimmed past the article titled "is a million dollars enough for your poop?" weeks ago because I knew my poop was unhealthy and that's what led me to your website in the first place. Has no one else even verbally expressed interest in finding a highly effective donor in their community? That's what I've been trying to do. As of last week anyway so not for long yet. Plus I have a full-time job and a kid and I'm pretty sick so I don't have a ton of time to devote to it unfortunately. Being really sick is a strong motivator to find someone though. I don't think I'd do it for money if I weren't sick or had a sick child.
It's too bad people are very turned off from this idea. I've discussed it with one of my very good friends who is a super crunchy mom. I asked her if she knows anyone or anyone's kids without antibiotic exposure and she said "probably" (she is an anti-vaxxer, knows lots of other anti-vaxxers, very involved in Weston A. price foundation, that kind of stuff) but was concerned I was considering FMT. She doesn't want me to do it I think she's worried it will go badly. But I think it's probably my best option. Similar conversations with some friends around here who are very crunchy are like "no, no, you need to try raw milk" or "I know someone who has extra breast milk"
How do you know you don't already have a superdonor if you have dozens or hundreds of top-tier donors?
It's too bad people are very turned off from this idea. I've discussed it with one of my very good friends who is a super crunchy mom. I asked her if she knows anyone or anyone's kids without antibiotic exposure and she said "probably" (she is an anti-vaxxer, knows lots of other anti-vaxxers, very involved in Weston A. price foundation, that kind of stuff) but was concerned I was considering FMT. She doesn't want me to do it I think she's worried it will go badly. But I think it's probably my best option. Similar conversations with some friends around here who are very crunchy are like "no, no, you need to try raw milk" or "I know someone who has extra breast milk"
How do you know you don't already have a superdonor if you have dozens or hundreds of top-tier donors?
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Michael Harrop
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A handful of people here and there, but there are probably very few people who have the ability to reach super-donors, and I expect they need extra motivation (both them and the donor). I've been offering a referral reward ($2k or so) to all stool donor applicants for years.
Partly based on using them myself. But definitely, some of them could be highly effective for many people and we won't know until something changes with the FDA or we can run clinical trials.
Yes I don't expect I'd be able to find a super donor. But perhaps a highly effective donor using the criteria I am gathering from info on the forum, website and questionnaire if I put in enough time and effort.
You know who really need a good donor though? Kate Middleton. It's probably already been discussed here somewhere that she has Crohn's and some type of colorectal cancer I think. That would be such a great way for this type of effort to get more publicity and funding. But it's got to be nearly impossible for regular people to make inroads with people like that. Selena Gomez needs one too as she has lupus. I think they just don't know FMT has the ability to cure them or they'd have gotten it done by now.
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Michael Harrop
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Yes, there are many very wealthy, famous people who suffer from conditions that FMT is likely to treat. In fact, I've seen in the news that many of them die from their conditions without reaching out to me. It's incredibly frustrating given how hard it is to find their contact information, thus it's largely up to them to find and contact me.
I had someone associated with a billionaire contact me but it seemed like they were more interested in continuing to leech money off of the billionaire rather than get them cured, so they didn't end up using my donors or helping at all.
Michael J Fox even has his own foundation dedicated to research, and I've seen others going to congress to petition for more funding for research. It doesn't hurt to reach out to these people & groups but I get nothing but silence from nearly all of them.
Thanks for the reminder though. I just followed up with one of the only ones who responded years ago.
I had someone associated with a billionaire contact me but it seemed like they were more interested in continuing to leech money off of the billionaire rather than get them cured, so they didn't end up using my donors or helping at all.
Michael J Fox even has his own foundation dedicated to research, and I've seen others going to congress to petition for more funding for research. It doesn't hurt to reach out to these people & groups but I get nothing but silence from nearly all of them.
Thanks for the reminder though. I just followed up with one of the only ones who responded years ago.
It's very odd that it gets so little funding, and other things with way lower likelihood of success are highly funded. It doesn't make logical sense. Then again humans are often not logical. I also don't understand why more people aren't in this forum itself when r/fecaltransplant is completely dead, and I strongly believe this is many people's only real hope of getting well. I will definitely be searching this forum for explanations others have provided to make sense of this.
For now I'm assuming it's mostly ignorance and blind trust in the medical system. It's a very frustrating phenomenon, when the people around you understand on some level that the system is broken and hurting patients but also believe we all need to trust in it as much as possible. I think it's like the cognitive dissonance of cult members. On some level they know their leader is hurting people but at the same time believe very strongly they have to obey and are incapable of setting out on their own.
For now I'm assuming it's mostly ignorance and blind trust in the medical system. It's a very frustrating phenomenon, when the people around you understand on some level that the system is broken and hurting patients but also believe we all need to trust in it as much as possible. I think it's like the cognitive dissonance of cult members. On some level they know their leader is hurting people but at the same time believe very strongly they have to obey and are incapable of setting out on their own.
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Michael Harrop
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I don't know the stats, but FMT seems to be decently funded. The problem as I see it is incompetence and apathy on the part of the people doing the clinical trials. So they don't even bother trying to acquire high-quality donors. Another problem is general ignorance. You and I spend time learning about the microbiome and FMT, but most people do not. That includes doctors and researchers who could opt to do FMT clinical trials.
Most people are incredibly lazy. Too lazy to sign up for a forum account and follow the activity there. And too lazy to lift a finger to do anything to better their own condition.
Most of them would rather sit around and wallow in their misery and demand that someone else do all the work; even if that someone else is a disabled patient.
I experienced this a little with some researchers. I had my son's microbiome sequenced when I was considering him to be an FMT donor for myself and was shocked at the lack of a specific type of bacteria since he was a natural birth, exclusively breastfed for 6 months, and I'm still breastfeeding him. (I am nervous about weaning because part of my still hopes I can get him a good FMT to maybe fix his allergies and mitigate the possibility of various chronic ailments so he can live a healthy life, and I think he is less likely to tolerate new microbes after weaning.) I emailed researchers explaining my son needs an FMT because he was exposed to Flagyl and they told me not to worry and that he's totally fine. Their apathy and apparent ignorance was super frustrating and depressing. (I never would have let him have that antibiotic exposure if I knew then what I know now.) After emailing the authors of 5-10 papers I gave up because none of them seemed to care. I quickly realized with the FDA rules about FMT in the states that they wouldn't be able to do a trial/ case study anyway, that it would need to be done in Europe, but one of those researchers blew me off too when I told him I was in the US. Then my own health problems started worsening and I realized I needed to get myself healthy first and I've basically been trying not to become disabled since then.
Perhaps a result of the poor parenting you cited earlier. My parents raised me to not be lazy, always strive to do my best, to be competetive, achieve, be self-sacrificing, and have the attitude that failure is not an option. Good qualities in moderation. Reflecting back on it though most of my peers in grade school were not raised like this at all.
Sorry about your experiences on reddit. I try to stay away from there. I have found the sort of "mob dynamics" you described disturbing. And I really disliked the threads of moms congratulating other moms for giving up on breastfeeding. I've spent very little time there in general. Good for you for continuing to try to spread good info there for so long though.
I think the approach to getting poop from strangers either virtually or in person is difficult since it is such a personal thing and if you need many samples it is a bit of an investment. And the complete ignorance most people have of the the microbiome and the logic of the ask is a significant hurdle. I'm definitely nervous about my own prospects but at least I have a couple friends and family willing to help.
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Michael Harrop
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Indeed. I really hope someone in the federal government will do something about this (I'm trying to get them to understand). Based on what I've seen, and one person I talked to, the people sending hundreds of millions of dollars to the entities that make up the public research system don't seem to realize how flawed that system is. They're practically pouring that money down the drain in many cases.
Many EU countries have the same rules and restrictions. A doctor in the US can do it, it just requires them to file paperwork.
I didn't know that. I read an interview with one US pediatrician on the importance of certain bacteria for lung or lung immune development in babies in the first few months, and iirc he said he didn't know anyone doing FMT on babies in the US. That may be the hesitancy I encountered is the baby aspect. Now I wouldn't do it anyway because I don't have a good donor for him and I didn't know much about donor selection at the time.
Have you listened to the Things Fell Apart podcast? Season 2 episode 2. A family created the Whittemore Peterson Institute for CFS research after their daughter became ill. That was the 2000s. You've probably already reached out to them. I bet they would have tried FMT to cure their daughter back then if they had known about it. She's got to be in her 40s now though. I wonder if a family in a similar situation would consider funding a clinical trial like the one you suggested. I don't know of any though.
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Michael Harrop
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Yes, for infants & children it's likely vital to age-match:
I just saw an article that touches on this. It covers a Canadian Pediatrician sourcing young donors for FMT: https://www.technologyreview.com/2025/01/03/1108673/stool-bank-manager-gastroenterology-fecal-matter-transplant-bacterial-infections/
But I think most places have been using adult donors for children. Infants getting/needing FMT is rarer I think. Many infants carry C. diff asymptomatically.
I have written to him and received no response. People like that ignoring FMT is one of the many things that make me think incompetence is widespread in the research, medical, and professional spheres.
I don't think I've heard of, or contacted, WPI. Thanks for the tip, I'll contact them!
- https://humanmicrobiome.info/aging/
- https://maximiliankohler.blogspot.com/2019/12/ethics-concerns-about-finnish-fmt.html
I just saw an article that touches on this. It covers a Canadian Pediatrician sourcing young donors for FMT: https://www.technologyreview.com/2025/01/03/1108673/stool-bank-manager-gastroenterology-fecal-matter-transplant-bacterial-infections/
But I think most places have been using adult donors for children. Infants getting/needing FMT is rarer I think. Many infants carry C. diff asymptomatically.
There's a famous CFS researcher (Ron Davis) who has a son with severe CFS: https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/12/stanford-scientist-searches-for-answer-to-his-sons-devastating-condition/
I have written to him and received no response. People like that ignoring FMT is one of the many things that make me think incompetence is widespread in the research, medical, and professional spheres.
I don't think I've heard of, or contacted, WPI. Thanks for the tip, I'll contact them!
I think the C-section neonate situation is possibly a special circumstance and maybe should be treated differently from infants and children needing an age-matched FMT for conditions like C. diff. The reason being these babies are not seeded at all, and are about to be primarily seeded with skin bacteria, as opposed to babies/children who have already been initially seeded. I think it might be riskier to use an FMT from a different neonate in these cases for a couple reasons:
- Women's microbiomes change significantly in the 3rd trimester, perhaps in a way that is evolutionarily advantageous for the microbial transfer that is supposed to occur during birth
- Age-matching might be difficult since the neonate/ infant microbiome changes rapidly in the first few months. The first stool of babies is also meconium which is not considered an accurate representation of their microbiome. It might be unclear when the ideal time is to take the sample from a prospective baby donor
- Question, is it possible important bacteria are being transferred during birth that remain dormant for a long time and would not appear in an age-matched neonate's stool?
I agree with point 2 and mostly point 3 in your letter about the ethical considerations though. For number 3 I think a different donor should definitely be used if the mother has some kind of health condition like high blood pressure or type 1 diabetes. But if not I think there is a possibility of there being something to do with genetic influences over the microbiome bacteria, meaning it's possible certain species/ strains work better for people with one collection of genes versus another. I don't know if that's true or enough of a reason to choose a mother as a donor over a higher quality donor.
I have been thinking about FMT for young babies and children who are otherwise healthy (mostly) and I think it may be useful to view it as a probiotic, especially if an age-matched high-quality donor cannot be identified. The issue being a matter of dosing. For example, say a super-donor is identified and they are willing to donate their stool. And it contains all the "missing microbes". Hypothetically speaking, could a few micro-FMT or probiotic-sized doses to young children with deficient microbiomes be beneficial by seeding them with missing bacteria? But not detrimental by altering the structure of their microbiome in a too adult-like way, because the dose is small? Interested in other people's thoughts on that. Maybe it is a terrible idea haha.
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Michael Harrop
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I've had mothers apply for their 1-2 year old babies, and many of them have solid stools. I think these 1-2-year-olds could be stool donors for anyone, including newborns.
In fact, before they fell through, my #1 donor (humanmicrobes.org early on) was a 1-2-year-old with a good stool type.
For your first point, that's probably correct, but we've overridden the "natural way" of things, so at this point, unless the mother is in great health and qualifies to be a high-quality donor herself, it's likely better to focus on donor quality.
I'm not 100% sure about your 3rd point/question, but I'm pretty sure the common sequencing methods detect "dormant" bacteria. However, I do remember one study that pointed out a large percentage of "unknown" results and hypothesized that they could be spores. https://humanmicrobiome.info/fmt/#freezing
In fact, before they fell through, my #1 donor (humanmicrobes.org early on) was a 1-2-year-old with a good stool type.
For your first point, that's probably correct, but we've overridden the "natural way" of things, so at this point, unless the mother is in great health and qualifies to be a high-quality donor herself, it's likely better to focus on donor quality.
I'm not 100% sure about your 3rd point/question, but I'm pretty sure the common sequencing methods detect "dormant" bacteria. However, I do remember one study that pointed out a large percentage of "unknown" results and hypothesized that they could be spores. https://humanmicrobiome.info/fmt/#freezing
I'm doubtful, but I don't think it's been tested yet.
I got the idea from the study referenced in this article: https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/research-and-discoveries-articles/restoring-gut-microbes-missing-in-early-life-dysbiosis
Are you familiar with this study?
That is super interesting! I was thinking you were talking about <1 month olds.
Based on two metagenomics tests of my son in series either they do not detect dormant bacteria or these tests are not very accurate. The first test showed a high percentage of Bifidobacteria and the second test detected none at all. And the second test showed maybe 10 new species. He did get food poisoning in between the tests but I think extermination of all Bifidobacteria from one infection seems unlikely, right? That's why I think the tests either miss dormant bacteria or are inaccurate.
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Michael Harrop
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I don't think that conflicts with my position. And it doesn't appear that they tested "micro-FMT or probiotic-sized doses"?
Ah. I could be wrong but I don't think that precise level of age-matching is required.
This for sure. https://humanmicrobiome.info/testing/
No it wasn't an FMT they tested it was a probiotic.
Wasn't sure where to post this but just wanted to check you've tried reaching out to Mikhaila Peterson. She's Jordan Peterson's daughter and she's done FMT for C. diff, and so has her mother. They did it in a kind of DIY way, I think they ordered the poop online, after the Taymount Clinic FMTs failed. Alternative health is a big topic on her podcast. This effort might be something she is willing to give publicity to after personally experiencing the life-saving potential of FMT.
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Michael Harrop
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Yes, one of the many people who should be supporting a project like this. I think she briefly contacted me to inquire about ordering. She should be aware of everything going on, and she's even married to a seemingly very healthy NFL player, so she already has inroads for recruiting there, yet doesn't appear to care.
She's married to a different Jordan Fuller. His LinkedIn says "Chief Operations Officer at Peterson Academy. Background in mobile game development and marketing." He seems healthy but I don't think she has connections to the NFL.
If it's been a long time since she asked about ordering I think it's plausible she isn't aware.
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Michael Harrop
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Ah. I was thinking it might be useful to contact him (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordanmichaelfuller/) but then I saw their health project is just selling supplements (https://fullerhealth.com/).
She's been getting updates.