GI360 results interpretation help

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uprising11

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Oct 21, 2023
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Hey all,

To give some context my official diagnoses are IBD (Crohn's) and Visual Snow Syndrome. I have a long list of symptoms but I think they would all fall under the umbrella of these two conditions. Just to mention my neurological symptoms (brain fog, anxiety, depersonalization etc) are much worse than my physical symptoms (constipation/diarrhea, stomach pain etc) which are very mild as long as I don't deviate too far from my diet (currently a looser version of SCD). My neurological symptoms started first from what I can remember. They started a year or two after some pretty extensive usage of antibiotics, although while this seems pretty suspicious, there are other factors at play such as high stress during that time. I guess they probably both contributed. My current thinking is that intestinal permeability is at the root of my issues.

I wanted some help interpreting my GI360 results, which to me on the surface look surprisingly good. It doesn't look like I have much dysbiosis going on and have good bacteria diversity. Does anyone know how much confidence those results can give me that that is actually the case? From the page on testing it looks like potentially not that much?

The only other things that jump out to me are low butyrate which seems a bit weird as if I had a damaged gut lining butyrate wouldn't be as effectively absorbed and therefore I would expect to see elevated levels in my stool? Also I get a +3 on Citrobacter freundii complex which is listed as dysbiotic bacteria. Not sure how much of a concern that is and what I can do to address it.

There are a few other bits on there outside normal levels but I just don't have the expertise to piece any of that together.

I also have lots of other results like NutrEval and other blood tests if they'd be useful.

Thanks!

https://filebin.net/<snip>
 
Such as? I can't invent a use for something useless. But there are plenty of people who are willing to take your money to tell you otherwise.

FYI a .zip of images that has to be downloaded is not a good way to share images/results.
 
Michael Harrop said:
Such as? I can't invent a use for something useless. But there are plenty of people who are willing to take your money to tell you otherwise.

FYI a .zip of images that has to be downloaded is not a good way to share images/results.
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Oh ok. I assumed it had some use..

Any suggestions of what to do in my scenario?
 
Michael Harrop said:
I think FMT is the only real solution, which is why I'm pursuing it.
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Why do you believe lack of microbiota diversity or microbiota dysbiosis is at the root of your issues if we can't test for it (or does FMT have another benefit)? From the research I've seen it's essentially intestinal permeability which allows the cascade of inflammation to begin, which could be due to a whole load of things not just issues with the microbiome composition.
 
Because of all this https://humanmicrobiome.info/intro/ and this https://forum.humanmicrobiome.info/threads/my-detailed-experiences-lessons-from-13-different-fmt-donors-jun-2018.53.

uprising11 said:
essentially intestinal permeability
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I agree that intestinal permeability is likely a "final straw" that breaks and starts causing havoc throughout the body. https://humanmicrobiome.info/intestinal-permeability/
Due to a whole load of things? Such as?

Most of the literature overwhelmingly shows that you can reverse most kinds of damage via FMT. Yes, there is a two-way street where many things can cause dysbiosis and dysbiosis results in many symptoms, but FMT is generally the way to restore eubiosis.
 
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I wouldn't be so quick to jump to thinking about FMT. Isn't it really hard to find a donar healthy enough to bring risk low enough?

If you have access to a good donar, then maybe skip what I'm about to write, because the following won't bring back extinct microbiota.

What work have you done to improve your gut microbiome? Probably already a lot. We assume you've already done what you can, but it's worth checking.

Human milk oligosaccharides, apple peel extract, cycling fasting and then introducing leafy greens. This is what I've been working on, and I think I've managed to build some improvements for me personally and a very different situation. Even just natto seems like it could help in building biofilm. There's all the varieties of kefir to experiment with as well and potentially that could be a tool to evolve with.

However, it's hard for me to give exact advice because this is such a tricky art. As mentioned, the biomicrome profile tests aren't that useful. Vagus nerve feedback should be helpful, but that becomes a very personal journey. More of an art than a science.
Personally, I think stool quality is one of the more useful data points that a group of people can use, but again, that's obviously a very crude and basic feedback.

We need more scientific ways to discuss and share as a community.
 
Sift0593 said:
I wouldn't be so quick to jump to thinking about FMT. Isn't it really hard to find a donar healthy enough to bring risk low enough?

If you have access to a good donar, then maybe skip what I'm about to write, because the following won't bring back extinct microbiota.

What work have you done to improve your gut microbiome? Probably already a lot. We assume you've already done what you can, but it's worth checking.

Human milk oligosaccharides, apple peel extract, cycling fasting and then introducing leafy greens. This is what I've been working on, and I think I've managed to build some improvements for me personally and a very different situation. Even just natto seems like it could help in building biofilm. There's all the varieties of kefir to experiment with as well and potentially that could be a tool to evolve with.

However, it's hard for me to give exact advice because this is such a tricky art. As mentioned, the biomicrome profile tests aren't that useful. Vagus nerve feedback should be helpful, but that becomes a very personal journey. More of an art than a science.
Personally, I think stool quality is one of the more useful data points that a group of people can use, but again, that's obviously a very crude and basic feedback.

We need more scientific ways to discuss and share as a community.
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I actually haven't heard of those things, thanks. I have tried quite a few other things though - reducing sulfur, improving oxidization, glutamine, anti-inflammatory supplements, improving circadian rhythm, sunlight exposure, stress reduction, probiotics, exercise, colostrum and probably lots more I can't think of right now.

I'm currently working on reducing my tnf-alpha and other inflammatory cytokines as I'm thinking I might be fighting a losing battle if I don't get those under control first, then I can revisit repairing the gut barrier.

Also as a side point, I was reading the probiotics guide and it makes recommendations based on stool patterns. But my BMs don't follow any real pattern, they're all over the place. Sometime I'll be constipated, sometimes diarrhea, sometimes just perfect. Sometimes light in colour, sometimes dark. On average I have one BM every 1 - 2 days. Never mucus or blood. I get quite bad perianal itching from time to time. Stomach aches a bit sometimes. Really bad foggy feeling a lot of the time, especially after eating, anxiety, cognitive issues. Any idea what this means and which probiotics, if any, would be suitable for me when the time comes?
 
I really don't have enough experience with probiotics, other than to say that I found food and protocol to be far more useful. This is just my experience. But that was a while ago.
Building and improving has been a slow process taking months of trial and error, but consistently doing the things that have been working for me personally.

I mentioned HMO, leafy greens and natto. I suggest to investigate those. Also fasting just because it makes everything simpler to have less in the gut when trying to figure this all out.

Something else I found useful was flooding everything with kefir at times. It helps to give a sense what is going on there by giving a consistent environment to refer back to.

a key concept is just eating one thing at a time, or a less things at a time to stop mixing inputs and give yourself (and vagus nerve) a better signal to listen to.

Another piece of practical advice is to think about timing. If you've eaten a bowl of salad and then eat something that goes into that environment, like artichoke, that seems to do something different than other combinations.

I hope this helps. This isn't science, nor exact health advice, but hopefully some guidance on the process
 
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