Discussion of Jane Dudley's website as a source of reputable information on the microbiome and FMT
- Thread starter NiroZ
- Start date
Michael Harrop
Well-known member
I checked some of the links on that page, and I would say that should not be "go-to" information to give to people, especially not by itself without any disclaimer. It's missing some very important information & warnings, and is overall going to give people a very poor understanding of the topics it covers. It cites some very poor sources.
In my opinion, the wiki is by far the best resource available.
- Thread Starter
- #3
I understand you find it difficult to expend a lot of energy, but without establishing even one example of your claims, I really have nothing to go on. Jane obviously plans to turn turn that website into a fully featured information hub, so I'm sure she'd appreciate the constructive feedback, and if you posted it here I'd but interested too.
I'm amending this comment to warn anyone reading about Michael Harrop. He removed my response here (https://forum.humanmicrobiome.info/threads/diet-outperforms-microbial-transplant-to-drive-microbiome-recovery-in.997/) claiming multiple rule violations. The only rule violation claimed in his removal message was that I was that encouraging people to eat a healthy diet after antibiotics was misleading and misinformation. Here's the quote:
accurate information to encourage beneficial behaviors.
I'm utterly confused as to how this is misleading or misinformation. What are the dangers of eating a diet that is healthy for a person after antibiotics?
But I don't think this is why he actually removed my comment. I think instead it was because I said this:
He claims he's provided a plethora of citations, however, he doesn't provide studies to back up his claims, but rather links to his wiki, which if you read though doesn't actually back up his claims. It seems he hopes by inundating you with information and sources, you will either assume he knows what he's talking about, or be overwhelmed and give up. Or perhaps he's forgotten what's on his own wiki.
The bone of contention seems to be that he claims diet cannot introduce new species. Which is a very convenient thing for someone selling FMT stools to say. He has yet to provide any sources for this claim, and here he claims it on the wiki he provides no source either (https://humanmicrobiome.info/diet/#impacts-limitations). The closest he has come to an explanation is this:
generationally"
But he provides no source (other than misleading links on the wiki) proving that all our microbiome is inherited generationally. Which is, on a literal level, not true, many viruses like chick pox stay with us after infection. So I don't see why there can't be viruses can't infect our gut microbiome permanently, for good or bad. As for the rest of the microbiome, I'd be delighted to see longitudinal studies showing Michael's claim, but I'm doubtful always true.
I've also questioned the relevance of this claim considering bacteria, you know, evolve and transfer DNA with each other (here's one such paper on the subject https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1114021). He has not responded to that.
And this is not all. He doesn't just make claims he can't back up to further his commercial ventures, provide misleading links, and remove posts that put him in a bad light.
His stools have caused people to be sick and turned their stools a slimy tar like consistency (https://www.reddit.com/r/Microbiome/comments/13f2p4o/humanmicrobesorg_reviews_warning_people_are/), but there is no information warning about such negative side effects on his website, even though apparently he said it's a common effect.
He smears competitors (https://humanmicrobiome.info/where-to-get-fmt/#microbiomaorg) and will savagely attack anyone supporting them (https://web.archive.org/web/20230209040156/https://old.reddit.com/r/fecaltransplant/comments/10xdbf7/jane_dudley_is_helping_someone_blackmail_me_by/). To quote Michael:
disinformation based on what she wants to believe is true, which she picks up
from scammers and trolls. Does no fact checking, nor bothers to review
available evidence before making extremely important decisions/conclusions.
https://forum.humanmicrobiome.info/threads/discussion-of-jane-dudleys-website-as-a-source-of-reputable-informatio.1002/
It is interesting that in attacking this person, he never responds to her claim (under the FMT clinic link here https://www.microbiomeinmind.com.au/fecal-microbiota-transplant-fmt-links) that:
And on top of all of this, he keeps claiming he is part of a group, when it's only him.
In short, he's the very sort of crank that he claims to be fighting against, suppressing information, spreading misinformation, selling a dodgy product and attacking anyone who is a threat. Follow him at your own peril.
I'm amending this comment to warn anyone reading about Michael Harrop. He removed my response here (https://forum.humanmicrobiome.info/threads/diet-outperforms-microbial-transplant-to-drive-microbiome-recovery-in.997/) claiming multiple rule violations. The only rule violation claimed in his removal message was that I was that encouraging people to eat a healthy diet after antibiotics was misleading and misinformation. Here's the quote:
and misinformation are never good. There are plenty of ways to use & spread
accurate information to encourage beneficial behaviors.
I'm utterly confused as to how this is misleading or misinformation. What are the dangers of eating a diet that is healthy for a person after antibiotics?
But I don't think this is why he actually removed my comment. I think instead it was because I said this:
claims better than that if you want to be taken seriously.
He claims he's provided a plethora of citations, however, he doesn't provide studies to back up his claims, but rather links to his wiki, which if you read though doesn't actually back up his claims. It seems he hopes by inundating you with information and sources, you will either assume he knows what he's talking about, or be overwhelmed and give up. Or perhaps he's forgotten what's on his own wiki.
The bone of contention seems to be that he claims diet cannot introduce new species. Which is a very convenient thing for someone selling FMT stools to say. He has yet to provide any sources for this claim, and here he claims it on the wiki he provides no source either (https://humanmicrobiome.info/diet/#impacts-limitations). The closest he has come to an explanation is this:
evolving alongside us for millions of years and get passed down
generationally"
But he provides no source (other than misleading links on the wiki) proving that all our microbiome is inherited generationally. Which is, on a literal level, not true, many viruses like chick pox stay with us after infection. So I don't see why there can't be viruses can't infect our gut microbiome permanently, for good or bad. As for the rest of the microbiome, I'd be delighted to see longitudinal studies showing Michael's claim, but I'm doubtful always true.
I've also questioned the relevance of this claim considering bacteria, you know, evolve and transfer DNA with each other (here's one such paper on the subject https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1114021). He has not responded to that.
And this is not all. He doesn't just make claims he can't back up to further his commercial ventures, provide misleading links, and remove posts that put him in a bad light.
His stools have caused people to be sick and turned their stools a slimy tar like consistency (https://www.reddit.com/r/Microbiome/comments/13f2p4o/humanmicrobesorg_reviews_warning_people_are/), but there is no information warning about such negative side effects on his website, even though apparently he said it's a common effect.
He smears competitors (https://humanmicrobiome.info/where-to-get-fmt/#microbiomaorg) and will savagely attack anyone supporting them (https://web.archive.org/web/20230209040156/https://old.reddit.com/r/fecaltransplant/comments/10xdbf7/jane_dudley_is_helping_someone_blackmail_me_by/). To quote Michael:
lacking integrity and intelligence, who spreads hearsay, lies, and
disinformation based on what she wants to believe is true, which she picks up
from scammers and trolls. Does no fact checking, nor bothers to review
available evidence before making extremely important decisions/conclusions.
https://forum.humanmicrobiome.info/threads/discussion-of-jane-dudleys-website-as-a-source-of-reputable-informatio.1002/
It is interesting that in attacking this person, he never responds to her claim (under the FMT clinic link here https://www.microbiomeinmind.com.au/fecal-microbiota-transplant-fmt-links) that:
And on top of all of this, he keeps claiming he is part of a group, when it's only him.
In short, he's the very sort of crank that he claims to be fighting against, suppressing information, spreading misinformation, selling a dodgy product and attacking anyone who is a threat. Follow him at your own peril.
Last edited:
Michael Harrop
Well-known member
If one reviews the link I shared, it should be quite obvious. Compare the Where to get FMT page with her "FMT Clinics" document. A specific example is her heavy reliance on hearsay, which is heavily contradicted by the public evidence.
I see she cites my wiki and capsule-making video in one of her documents, which is appreciated, but those documents don't seem up-to-date.
Compare her "Making FMT" document to the info & instructions in the wiki. I think her method is poor and possibly detrimental (blending, air exposure).
Additionally, she has shown herself to be a very unreliable source and easily manipulated by people with bad intentions.
Jane Dudley is not a reputable source of information. She started blatantly lying, which calls into question all the hearsay she's spread in the past, which she was taken at her word for.
At best, she's a childish, gullible, easily manipulated, irresponsible person, lacking integrity and intelligence, who spreads hearsay, lies, and disinformation based on what she wants to believe is true, which she picks up from scammers and trolls. Does no fact checking, nor bothers to review available evidence before making extremely important decisions/conclusions.
FYI, I have not talked about this/her since that last instance, and I only commented on this since you're citing her as a valid source and asked me to expound. This was a dormant issue, and I was happy to keep it that way.
I see she cites my wiki and capsule-making video in one of her documents, which is appreciated, but those documents don't seem up-to-date.
Compare her "Making FMT" document to the info & instructions in the wiki. I think her method is poor and possibly detrimental (blending, air exposure).
Additionally, she has shown herself to be a very unreliable source and easily manipulated by people with bad intentions.
- She is "JanusOf_Oz" here: https://web.archive.org/web/20220110233828/https://old.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/comments/rzxj0m/fmt_for_depression_and_anxiety/
- "Jane Dudley is helping someone blackmail me" https://web.archive.org/web/20230209040156/https://old.reddit.com/r/fecaltransplant/comments/10xdbf7/jane_dudley_is_helping_someone_blackmail_me_by/
Jane Dudley is not a reputable source of information. She started blatantly lying, which calls into question all the hearsay she's spread in the past, which she was taken at her word for.
At best, she's a childish, gullible, easily manipulated, irresponsible person, lacking integrity and intelligence, who spreads hearsay, lies, and disinformation based on what she wants to believe is true, which she picks up from scammers and trolls. Does no fact checking, nor bothers to review available evidence before making extremely important decisions/conclusions.
FYI, I have not talked about this/her since that last instance, and I only commented on this since you're citing her as a valid source and asked me to expound. This was a dormant issue, and I was happy to keep it that way.