Anyone else find the ordering FAQ at humanmicrobes.org to be cryptic?

[ryhaltswhiskey]

I reached out to them with a specific question and the response was "that's covered in the FAQ". But that FAQ seems cryptic to me -- all over the place it's like "well it depends".

It's a product I may want to order. But after reading that FAQ I can't figure out what the actual process is. You'd think it would be:

1. Find a donor

1. Check that they are active

1. Check results reported from other users

1. Figure out how many doses you need

1. Figure out how much it will cost

1. If you want to order, send money to the company

1. Donor ships product to you (or to the company which ships them to you after quality check?)

(This forum doesn't support markdown and I'm not going to fix those bullet numbers, you get the idea)

From the FAQ it's not clear if any of those steps are correct.

I'm going to be wiring money to a company that has a cryptic ordering process? If my money disappears or they don't deliver I'm stuck here, no consumer protection.

Doesn't help that their link to the results spreadsheet doesn't actually link to a spreadsheet.

Again, once I wire that money it might be GONE and I have no recourse if I get nothing for it, other than small claims court.

 

[Michael Harrop]

it's like "well it depends"

Yes. FMT is an experimental procedure and our recipients have full freedom to do as they please. There is no cut-and-dry "take x for x long". Anyone saying otherwise is probably deceiving you.

Difficulty with the Orders page and FAQ are rare, and when there is specific, actionable feedback it usually results in immediate improvements to the site. Recipients need to be competent enough to be able to review the FAQ and wiki and decide things for themselves. Otherwise, they probably shouldn't be engaging in DIY FMT at all.

That's the conclusion I came to as well ($100 per pill!) but when I contacted customer service they told me that was wrong. But they wouldn't clarify further. It was infuriating.

There is no customer service. It's only me. Keep in mind that I'm screening over a million donor applicants by myself. It's what I do all day every single day. The majority of the applicants are low-ranked or don't qualify at all, and I'm getting burned out screening so many people who don't come close to meeting my criteria. Keep in mind I'm pursuing FMT for my own poor health. I get hundreds of emails per day; often asking ridiculous questions that clearly demonstrate they didn't read anything on the website or the previous email.

Look at the contact section of the website. Over a year ago I changed it to link back to the Donors page if they're "interested in being a stool donor" and I added the text "Due to the large number of messages we receive, you may not receive a response to your inquiry if you ask a question that is already answered on our website" in multiple places and I still get tons of emails through there and the Orders page with ridiculous stuff that's close to just spam where people clearly ignored all the info they came across.

Similarly, I also stopped replying to many emails from donor applicants and added the text:

Keep in mind that we are screening hundreds of thousands of donor applicants. It is up to you to follow the directions and submit your photos for review. If you don’t receive a response within a few days, review the directions to make sure that you did everything correctly.

The Orders page clearly says "$100 per enema. Capsules are currently $10 each". So you coming up with $100 per capsule is yet another one of those types of emails. Again, if you're reading that and coming away with something completely different, DIY FMT may not be for you.

 

[ryhaltswhiskey]

The Orders page clearly says "$100 per enema. Capsules are currently $10 each"

Well, I asked about the FAQ page at https://www.humanmicrobes.org/ordering-faq and that text does not appear there. Nor does it appear on https://www.humanmicrobes.org/orders.

Where are you seeing that text?

 

[Michael Harrop]

Under the big, bolded "Costs" header on the Orders page.

Current stool prices are $1,000 per stool sample, which is split into 10 pieces. So around $100 per enema or upper dose. Capsules are currently $10 each.

Doesn't help that their link to the results spreadsheet doesn't actually link to a spreadsheet.

There's a big, bolded "Tracking results" header on the Orders page. It's good practice to avoid posting links or things like prices in multiple places so that if you need to change something you don't need to search for and change it in numerous places. List it in once place and link back to that place.

 

[ryhaltswhiskey]

Under the big, bolded "Costs" header on the Orders page.

Well this conversation is about the FAQ page and the FAQ page doesn't answer a very common question when ordering a product: How much does the product cost?

BTW:

One of the most successful investors in the world, Warren Buffet, has said that feedback is a gift. It’s like collecting data on your work and behavior, and it’s valuable time that someone dedicates to you. So it’s best to welcome feedback with open arms because it will help you grow immensely.

https://codecool.com/en/blog/why-feedback-gift-codecool/#:~:text=One of the most successful,that someone dedicates to you.

I'm giving you feedback about your FAQ page here and I really feel like your overall opinion here is that I'm just wrong. Most people wouldn't take the time to give you this feedback.

At the very least you should change

Stool donors are roughly ranked on our donor list. But rankings are difficult and speculative. There are many unknowns, and FMT is highly experimental. One of the main tools you have is looking through our stool-donor-results spreadsheet.

to

Stool donors are roughly ranked on our donor list. But rankings are difficult and speculative. There are many unknowns, and FMT is highly experimental. One of the main tools you have is looking through our stool-donor-results spreadsheet under Tracking Results.

because "looking through our stool-donor-results spreadsheet" really makes me think the link is going to go directly to the spreadsheet -- it didn't and that seemed like a broken link.

 

[Michael Harrop]

I'm giving you feedback about your FAQ page here and I really feel like your overall opinion here is that I'm just wrong.

Indeed. I thought this thread was a waste of my time from the start. I cherish feedback as much as anyone, but as I detailed in my first reply, when someone reads "10" and comes away with "100", and demonstrates that they haven't, or are unable to, read and comprehend basic information they came across, the value of their feedback is greatly diminished.

I made a change to that line in the FAQ.

 

[ryhaltswhiskey]

On the orders page:

Current stool prices are $1,000 per stool sample, which is split into 10 pieces. So around $100 per enema or upper dose. Capsules are currently $10 each.

What is a "piece"? An "upper dose", is that one pill or 20? That page directs me to the ordering FAQ, but it doesn't answer this question either.

We're 3 responses in and I still don't have an answer to these two:

4. Figure out how many doses you need

5. Figure out how much it will cost

If you're about to say "well it depends" just give me the typical order.

 

[Michael Harrop]

It's appearing more and more like you're just trolling.

People who need to be spoonfed are not qualified to purchase from HM. FMT is not for you. Wait a few more decades for a pharma company to make a multi-strain probiotic marketed as synthetic FMT and sold for $30,000/mo. Then you can get spoonfed from them and your doctor.

 

[ryhaltswhiskey]

I am legitimately trying to get my questions answered. Please understand that I am looking at spending $1000 on something with ZERO CONSUMER PROTECTION. It's smart to be cautious. If I wire you money and you do nothing with it the only way I can get it back is to take you to small claims court. A normal purchase I could use my credit card and just chargeback the purchase.

I'm surprised that you're surprised by my caution. I guess most people just send the money and hope it goes well?

It seems like my questions are annoying you, so if you feel that you need to just stop responding that's fine.

 

[Michael Harrop]

Whatever I may have not answered on the forum I answered via email. And you are continually asking for things that are publicly displayed on the website. Eg: you can look at the spreadsheet to see what the typical order is and calculate the price. If someone is unable to do that they do not qualify to order from HM.