"Alternative" donors (cross-species and "primitive")

[SirPoopsalot]

I am fairly new to this subject, but after reading a number of resources on this site and elsewhere, it seems that (a huge) part of the issue at hand is that we perhaps don't even know what the ideal microbiome looks like. We know what a more or less deviant microbiome would look like, but the uncompromised "natural" one may be a different story. And please, correct me if I am wrong.

It would seem to me that there are two prime categories in which we might find what could be described as an uncompromised & natural microbiome:

• Cross-species, specifically primates, our close evolutionary relatives
• "Primitive" (for lack of a better word) peoples, e.g., extremely isolated tribes

It seems somewhat reasonable to assume that a strong healthy individual in euther population is in fact strong and healthy due to the total lack of modern technology that can compensate for deficiencies (both in microbiome and elsewhere). Obviously some sort of lab verification would he needed as well, but it seems like a good starting point.

Has this been investigated at all? Is there any interest? In my mind, this seems like the logical starting point as opposed to combing through billions of humans living in a world saturated with technology, medical, physical, agricultural, chemical, etc., all with impact to the microbiome causing ever more deviation from "natural"

Just my two cents.

 

[Michael Harrop]

Yes, it's been discussed. You can search the forum for "tribes" and "hadza". It's also covered in this blog: https://www.humanmicrobes.org/blog/half-a-million-stool-donor-applicants

The Hadza are a popular choice. https://www.coursera.org/lecture/microbiome/interview-on-location-in-tanzania-with-martin-blaser-ARVhF

Regarding other primates, it's likely that they could have some useful microbes, but it's also likely that our microbes contributed to our larger brains and capabilities. So there may be some risk with taking on their microbes. However, as noted in another thread, the Hadza do FMT from animals so it's unlikely that we'd get dumbed down to primate level by doing FMT from them. FMT and evolution are definitely more complex than that.

Here's a list I have in another thread: https://forum.humanmicrobiome.info/threads/attractiveness-facial-features-health-development-and-fmt-donor-select.64/#post-150

Look at the "West Papua Tribal War" video. As near back as 1963 you have multiple tribes that look completely healthy. I don't know what their status is now. And I know there's been concern about detriments from cannibalism among some tribes.

Regarding an "ideal microbiome", I discovered some observable stool characteristics that seem to identify highly effective donors.