What is the public perception of FMT? How much does it matter? Has it been blocking progress? Other 

In one of the Reddit threads you link, someone ("WalterBishRedLicrish") said the following:

Third, this is poop we're talking about. You want their poop. For us in the medical or research fields, it's just stool and we don't think anything of it. For regular folks, it's disgusting. To frame it like good poop is not only a hot commodity, but we want your good poop because of how you look, that sends the request right on into creeper territory. It doesn't surprise me that someone blocked you, or that you get no response.

This seems to be exactly the sort of thing that NameHere was saying, and I have been noticing.

There seems to be a strong aversion among many people to the idea of using something from a healthy person's body to heal another person's body. The very fact that people who are seen as "ideal" in some way are wanted for something that their bodies produce, no matter whether obtaining it harms the donor at all, just causes a visceral "squick" response in some people.

I suspect it doesn't help that many of us in the position to need microbes from healthy donors aren't in a position to grasp the psychology of being someone who not only is healthy enough to live his or her own life without being held back, but is wanted by other people who idealize his or her body in some manner--it is almost Martian to us in level of unrelatability. We think "if that person is a decent human being, why wouldn't he/she help me out?" I mean, even if and when someday I'm healthy enough to function well, I've lived so long being held back by my health, I would likely give stool, urine, saliva, sweat, what ever someone even thinks he or she might need from me to test out a theory. Since I did nothing on purpose to need to go on antibiotics to get me messed up like this, it would seem weird to me to feel "possessive" of a healthy microbiome, and feel any kind of contempt or disgust at someone who needs an infusion of microbes to function, so it seems like everyone else should feel the same.

It's easy for us to get resentful that these people who stand between us and the health we had before, that we feel we still deserve, are human agents with their own willpower who can say no to our requests. I know I sometimes fall into that way of thinking. In the language of inane Internet portmanteaus, you could say we become "poopcels" or "microbiomecels". And like the incels that inspired these silly terms, there's something about that way of thinking that really puts certain people off in an instinctual sort of way. And those voices seem particularly pronounced in our culture right now.

Again, not everyone is like this, there are very generous people who would love to help, but their voices kind of get drowned out in our world.

Now, there IS also an opposing "instinct" that has also been just as prevalent across a number of world cultures--suggesting it's also partly "innate"--that imbues healthy young bodies with an almost magical or supernatural ability to heal others' problems. The manifestations of this range from the obviously very violent and cruel practice of infant sacrifice, all the way to the mostly innocuous even if strange-sounding "virgin boy eggs" of China.

These two impulses seem to have kind of "dueled it out" across world history, and it so happens that in current Western culture, the tendency to be weirded out by the concept of using healthy people's bodies as some kind of means to the betterment of others seems to have the upper hand. This has some good sides, that hopefully some truly harmful and exploitative non-consensual behavior that was overlooked in the past is finally being brought to light; however the downside is that some genuinely good and benevolent ideas have become a hard sell just because of people's hyperactive squick detectors. So something like FMT, which is as harmless to the donors as those Chinese eggs, yet has a MUCH greater weight of evidence supporting its benefit and considerable plausibility given what we know about the gut, is difficult to promote.

You could say that the concept "culturally smells", and when you add the literal, olfactory stink of (most) stool, you get something many people don't want to touch--and that others (such as politicians) avoid to not trigger the sensitivities of those people. In order to overrule this "cultural stink", one would need considerably stronger evidence than just "the gut microbiome plays a role in many diseases".

That's why there are all these scientists studying the gut who promote things like the Mediterranean diet and so few promoting FMT. There's nothing culturally unsavory about promoting a Mediterranean diet, in fact quite the opposite--many people like Italian food and nobody or nothing is reasonably exploited to create it. Yes, there's scientific evidence for the Mediterranean diet, but a lot of the strength of that evidence can be attributed to how "fashionable" it is to study. If there was as much study of FMT as there has been of the Mediterranean diet, we'd probably have tons of people doing it now.

Then, due to the lack of good data, another cultural phenomenon comes into play--the fear of charlatans and being labeled as an intellectual heretic. Contrarily to the aversion to someone seeking donors, which relates to fears about the healthy donors being manipulated or used in some way, this relates to the fear that the sick recipients may be preyed upon or that people might attempt to "steal" prestige that they aren't due.

In my understanding, FMT only gets the negative response it does because of all three of these things working together. FMT would be better researched if high quality donors were more available, which would happen if the process didn't weird people out. With a lack of good research, the evidence isn't strong enough to overpower the "cultural stink". And leaders who are aware of the "cultural stink" don't dare support it unless there were doctors to "clinic-wash" the whole thing and cover up the visceral offputtingness of putting something from one person into another. So the whole field languishes.

That's why tons of other health practices and views (like anti-vax-ism) that many scientists consider pure quackery nonetheless have a flourishing market, and proponents of them even get very high in politics--yet FMT "dare not say its name".

And your comment that 70% of people would be willing to try FMT for C. diff doesn't contradict any of this. People like that would be acutely, seriously ill with a well recognized disease, at a point in their lives when their dignity is at a nadir. They would be getting treatment in a hospital by doctors who remove any trace of the "person-to-person-ness" of the transplant, and for this indication the proof of effectiveness is very strong. All this context does matter. This is very different from for example asking people if they would consider donating stool to a person suffering from diseases like ME/CFS, which some ignorant people think of as "just stress".
 
Just some points of clarification, as I suspect some people may misunderstand parts of the above--I'm NOT implying that FMT recipients mistreat donors in any way, or even tend to. Most of us are very nice to donors who we actually feel are promising, and very "down to earth" in our expectations of the time put in by them. It's the mere neediness (unfortunately something we can often do little about given our poor functioning) that puts some people off, unless (and occasionally even IF) couched in a super-diplomatic sort of way.

The more "stigmatized", for lack of a better word, the recipient group is, and the more "boutique" their criteria for donors seems to be, the more likely it will be to get viewed negatively. This "boutiqueness" can involve anything from sports stars and rich celebrities to the unusually attractive like beauty queens to merely exceptional youthfulness, and the "stigmatization" can be anything that makes the potential recipients seem unrelatable or "weird".

So something like blood transfusion is not seen negatively because the recipients are usually those with severe accidental injuries, not a stigmatized group at all, and the only requirement for the donors is that they are free of major diseases and have a matching blood type. Whereas the idea that FMT for chronic illness would be a miracle cure if only we had exceptional high quality donors IS seen negatively because most people have a hard time imagining being in a situation where they need to beg others for their stool, barring being in the hospital or similar, and the donors are hard to come by. It's in a way the old "beggars can't be choosers" maxim, where we are in the position of being forced by circumstances to "beg" (because stool sources are scarce, and many of us are poor) AND "choose" (because as we all know, FMT can fail or even make us worse if not done right).

Let's imagine for a second that there were some kind of chemical compound in the earwax of college cheerleaders that protects against baldness. I'm in no way implying that there IS, in fact I'd say the probability of this being true (and there not being a much simpler source for this same compound) is almost nil. But my point is that even if this WERE true, we'd likely never find out, because the level of public resistance to going so far as approving or funding a study that could potentially demonstrate this would be huge, and the hoops needed to jump through to justify it so onerous. Even if there were decent preliminary evidence suggesting it might work, such as animal studies where grad students rubbed their earwax on mouse fur, anyone in government who turned out to have been in charge of assigning taxpayer money to try to prove the cheerleader-earwax-baldness link would be ridiculed like there's no tomorrow.

Yes, if people DID get to studying this, eventually there's a point where science would need to acquiesce and admit there is truth to the claim. That's the great thing about science. But this likely wouldn't be until long after everyone in the world who was starting to go bald at the start of this all had already lost all his or her hair.

So it's not a matter of that people are so cognitively impaired that they can't read, and it's not a cover-up or conspiracy. It's that the treatment we're trying to get runs headlong against many people's emotional biases, and these same biases make doing the research necessary to get the data that overturns these biases very slow. And I'm not saying that I agree with these biases in any way--in fact they are often a major barrier to advancement of human knowledge--but to deny that they exist shows its own kind of ignorance.
 
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I think public perception of FMT is largely a non-issue. I commented on the "ick factor" in the other thread. And the 72% and 28% stat given there is roughly what I observe on social media as well.

The only times I've ever received a negative reaction from someone were when I was asking them to be a donor.

I have a ton of experience over the past decade, and I think the biggest issues by far, and thus the only ones worth focusing on, are laziness, apathy, and ignorance.

These are the recurring themes, both in the general populace (patient communities), as well as the research communities. You can see that I've documented a plethora of experiences in support.

I gave another example recently of me emailing the hundreds of Human Microbes recipients, most of whom got better from the FMTs, and only two or three were willing to do something as simple as send emails to Congress.

I just spoke to a couple of people who had never heard about FMT or the microbiome before. They reacted with amazement and interest, not disgust. One of them is dealing with many health problems, including being overweight. I mentioned the "transfer of obesity via FMT mouse studies". I told them what I'd been doing in DC for the past 9 months, and that I've been unable to make progress since the general public doesn't seem to care.

When I followed up with him about it, it was clear that he didn't care either, even though he's been involved in politics and talks about it frequently. I asked him why, and he said "Well, there are lots of things I could be doing for my health". A response that very clearly supports the "laziness, apathy, and ignorance" conclusion.

This is overwhelmingly my experience. And Congresspeople will not take action unless a large number of people demand it.

I think that focusing on anything else is a red herring.

That's why there are all these scientists studying the gut who promote things like the Mediterranean diet and so few promoting FMT.
They don't promote FMT because it's an experimental medical treatment that is not even approved for C. diff (it's simply allowed) in the US. It has major risks, unlike eating healthy diets.

That's why tons of other health practices and views (like anti-vax-ism) that many scientists consider pure quackery nonetheless have a flourishing market
Based on my observations and interactions, that is a result of people being poorly informed and unintelligent.

So something like blood transfusion is not seen negatively because
Poop is much grosser than blood. And there are groups who object to blood transfusions.

Let's imagine for a second that there were some kind of chemical compound in the earwax of college cheerleaders that protects against baldness

Even if there were decent preliminary evidence suggesting it might work, such as animal studies where grad students rubbed their earwax on mouse fur, anyone in government who turned out to have been in charge of assigning taxpayer money to try to prove the cheerleader-earwax-baldness link would be ridiculed like there's no tomorrow
I highly doubt that.
 
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They don't promote FMT because it's an experimental medical treatment that is not even approved for C. diff (it's simply allowed) in the US. It has major risks, unlike eating healthy diets.
Umm... so now you're agreeing with the people who have been telling you that it's too experimental and has major risks?

Poop is much grosser than blood. And there are groups who object to blood transfusions.
Again... so you're now agreeing that disgust is one of the main factors, when you have spent about five posts trying to convince us why it's insignificant in the larger picture?

Yes, there are people who object to blood transfusions but they're generally religious fanatics. As even you seems to now agree, the grossness of poop has a lot to do with why it's being treated differently. And the grossness of someone making a commodity out of it for the benefit of people who supposedly have other treatments available makes it sound even worse to many.

I highly doubt that.
Which do you doubt: That cheerleader earwax contains an anti-baldness compound? or that anyone who'd even propose testing to potentially discover this cure would be laughed out of town? If it's the former, I'm totally with you. If it's the latter, I think you underestimate the need to seem "respectable" among people in charge of government agencies. Note my comment was absolutely NOT that there isn't a "mad scientist" weird enough to GET the idea--there certainly are many such eccentric scientists out there. The issue is rather with the social institutions with which they would need to interact if they want this idea to be condoned by the public and/or get funding FROM the public.
 
Umm... so now you're agreeing with the people who have been telling you that it's too experimental and has major risks?
This is a very misleading statement. I have been one of the most vocal people about FMT's risks:
Continued letters and complaints to the FDA, NIH, and HHS (Jan 2025, FMT) | Human Microbiome Community Forum

Again... so you're now agreeing that disgust is one of the main factors
No, that is not what I said.

or that anyone who'd even propose testing to potentially discover this cure would be laughed out of town?
This one.
 
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