Experience with two Gezonde Darmflora donors. Worse from DF3, better from DF5. Gezonde Darmflora 

Founded by Marco Kleijn, Netherlands

Nigel

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I also tried DF3 from gezonde darmflora. First I tried the capsules which I got severe diarrhea and brainfog from. Before that I had normal stool on the constipated side with severe bloating and brainfog, but still it did not really matter what i was eating I had normal stool although I follow a very strict diet. So I went backwards a lot with DF3. After DF3 I did multiple water fasts hoping to undo the damage but with very little succes. In between I also tried DF5 because I was desperate but this time I tried a klysma(enema) I did not get worse from this donor and I got some benefits. But DF3 set the bar extremely low so it was not that hard to archieve better results. Some side effects were that this donor gave me bad smelly farts. I still had diarrhea after but less sticky diarrhea so my digestion did improve. But my digestion did not really 100% change to the donors stool. I also had benefits from this donor in some other areas. It got rid of my brainfog for 90% and helped against my severe bloating.

The owner told me I got a bad result from DF3 because of the capsules combined with sibo so I was willing to try DF3 klysma this time(this was already more than a year later) after the DF5 experience was not negative and had positive effects. Unfortunately I got the exact same reaction to DF3 klysma I got left with brainfog + diarrhea again and burning sensation inside my large intestine afterwards combined with bad fatigue. He was polite enough to send some DF5 saved samples to me afterwards. However I could only hold them in for only 30 minutes max. I had trouble taking his klysma since the beginning, so we agreed to add some extra water in a little plastic container/bottle his capsules also came in with NaCl water alongside the klysma which I would later add to the solution. However he did not appreciate the feedback about his klysma.

The main issue I am having with his Klysma is that the stool comes inside a syringe. So it is impossible to check whether or not the stool inside is dethawed enough or not. With Microbioma it came inside a little bottle with more water added. So you could shake the solution until there was little ice left and you knew it was ready to go. Here there was no indicator at all. Which made the solution get stuck inside the catheter for me. With more water added which I mixed first. And afterwards added to multiple syringes. I now had no issue taking the stool solution. I let it dethaw for a while outside and when it still felt slightly frozen I mixed the still frozen solution with the water inside a cup. Now I had cold water mixed with stool inside 2 syrringes which worked much better. But it was still very difficult to keep the stool inside for a long period of time.

Many months later my digestion improved a little again and the brainfog is also better by a lot. Which I think it is related to some bacteria in DF5 for the brainfog part. Bloating is also there but it's definitely less and not as severe as before. Only since last month my digestion started improving again because of my strict diet regime combined with water fasts. But it is still on and off a lot. So my digestion is worse than when I started and my brainfog and bloating is better than when I started. Both donors are not available any more at this time but I still wanted to share my experience for reference to future donors of Gezonde Darmflora. The advice I also would give for the capsules is start with 1 and gradually move up the amount to prevent the reaction I had. If you would happen to react negatively to a donor you can stop before it gets very bad. If you take them all at once you are gambling for a positive outcome. Which you will not always get. Also negative outcome with capsules = negative outcome with klysma atleast for me.

I left some stuff out that I might add in the near future. Since this review is already quite long, but for now this is my experience with Gezonde Darmflora. It can be worth a try but you have to be cautious when trying fmt in general and not be naive.
 
The owner told me I got a bad result from DF3 because of the capsules combined with sibo
Shows poor knowledge on his part.
Someone that poorly informed should not be supplying unregulated medical products and giving out medical advice.

Misplacing blame for bad results is something scammers and other disreputable individuals thrive on. "It's not our product/advice to blame".

However he did not appreciate the feedback about his klysma.
Interesting.

Also negative outcome with capsules = negative outcome with klysma atleast for me.
(y)

I left some stuff out that I might add in the near future.
Please add as much of the pre-filled info here as you can: https://forum.humanmicrobiome.info/forums/fmt-clinics-experiences-reviews/post-thread
 
Good too see someone else had a similar worsening from DF3, so it's not "just me". Not in the sense that it's good to see people get worse, but in that it's not that I am the only one made worse by a donor who is great for everyone else.

It's also interesting to see that DF5, who Marco said was the worst donor he's ever had, a narcissist who wasn't reliable delivering samples that he promised, and who is apparently the only donor that customers had reported getting worse from, actually helped someone more than DF3.

The owner told me I got a bad result from DF3 because of the capsules combined with sibo so I was willing to try DF3 klysma this time(this was already more than a year later) after the DF5 experience was not negative and had positive effects. Unfortunately I got the exact same reaction to DF3 klysma I got left with brainfog + diarrhea again and burning sensation inside my large intestine afterwards combined with bad fatigue.

Also negative outcome with capsules = negative outcome with klysma atleast for me.

For what it's worth, Marco said this much to me after I had a negative result with DF3 capsules. Yes, in his experience people with SIBO are more likely to benefit from enema than from capsules--however this does not mean that switching to enema makes a downright incompatible donor compatible.

In my experience, as someone who has been diagnosed with SIBO in the past, I did in fact do slightly better with enema, NOT because capsules from compatible donors made me worse in the way that DF3 did, but because I have difficulty tolerating more than a few capsules in one day without GI pain and nausea. With enema I can tolerate a much larger dose in one day, which increases the benefit a bit (not a lot, because in my experience most of the change is going from having none of a donor's bacteria to some--after this, adding more has rapidly diminishing returns). This is the grain of truth in his statement about people with SIBO.

He was polite enough to send some DF5 saved samples to me afterwards... However he did not appreciate the feedback about his klysma.
Marco is VERY "oxygen-phobic"--it colors nearly every aspect of his operation, where avoiding oxygen exposure is the overriding concern. He must strongly subscribe to the theory that the most beneficial bacterial species are strict anaerobes.

I recognized this quite early on as a point of difference of opinion with him and learned to mostly ignore some of the things he said that were clearly prompted by this, going instead with what my own reaction was to different ways of doing things. I suspect his reaction to your concern about the syringe was one of these--if he were to supply the preparation in a bottle and have his customers mix it with water and add it to the syringe, this would aerate the sample somewhat. It probably had nothing to do with him being disinterested in feedback.

It's really nice of him that he agreed to provide saline in a separate bottle for you to mix in, rather than expecting you to buy or make your own (which is what I would have done--in fact I DID purchase an enema kit and fill it with my own saline, to use right after the syringe in order to wash the FMT all the way up the colon to near the cecum, which isn't possible with the small volume of fluid he sends you).
Many months later my digestion improved a little again and the brainfog is also better by a lot. Which I think it is related to some bacteria in DF5 for the brainfog part. Bloating is also there but it's definitely less and not as severe as before. Only since last month my digestion started improving again because of my strict diet regime combined with water fasts. But it is still on and off a lot. So my digestion is worse than when I started and my brainfog and bloating is better than when I started.
The fact that both of us, testing three different donors between us, only got a partial cure after FMT suggests that they're not up to the likes of OpenBiome, which has been a near-complete cure for some..
 
It's also interesting to see that DF5, who Marco said was the worst donor he's ever had, a narcissist who wasn't reliable delivering samples that he promised, and who is apparently the only donor that customers had reported getting worse from, actually helped someone more than DF3.
He told me some people got worse from him who took capsules. Since he did not properly fill them and started messing with them. But that he could not mess with the syringes. So the syringes were safe to take. He also told me he was a bad person to rely on and the stuff you already mentioned. But he never told me his stool was bad as a donor. It mainly was about the donor as a human being.
Good too see someone else had a similar worsening from DF3, so it's not "just me". Not in the sense that it's good to see people get worse, but in that it's not that I am the only one made worse by a donor who is great for everyone else.
I think most people who get worse do not post it on the internet for everyone to see like we do. If you want to discuss some stuff in private let me know. I am not comfortable sharing everything on the internet anymore after my experience with Microbioma.
I suspect his reaction to your concern about the syringe was one of these--if he were to supply the preparation in a bottle and have his customers mix it with water and add it to the syringe, this would aerate the sample somewhat. It probably had nothing to do with him being disinterested in feedback.
That was not it. But I do not want to discuss this on the forums here.
The fact that both of us, testing three different donors between us, only got a partial cure after FMT suggests that they're not up to the likes of OpenBiome, which has been a near-complete cure for some..
I tried donor 1 and 2 from Microbioma and DF3 and DF5 from Gezonde Darmflora. Worst ones to me were DF3 and donor 1 from Microbioma. I believe it was donor 1 but im not entirely sure anymore. The other 2 donors gave me some benefits atleast. The last thing you expect when taking fmt is to get worse. But it can definitely happen so I hope people listen to this advice. I've never heard about OpenBiome before I am going to take a look at them. I know a woman i've met in a Facebook group who got succes with Taymount for her son. And I also read a story about someone who lived in Australia who did fmt for a long period of time with a very strict diet and only started seeing result after 6 months but eventually recovered. So I do not think most people will experience an instant cure from a donor. It's only when you are lucky with the right donor. I know Marco believes in instant relieve since he experienced that himself. But in my opinion that will not work for everyone.Misplacing blame for bad results is something scammers and other disreputable individuals thrive on. "It's not our product/advice to blame".
Misplacing blame for bad results is something scammers and other disreputable individuals thrive on. "It's not our product/advice to blame".
I do not think it is fair to call him a scammer. He always told me not to buy more than 1 piece of his product unless I saw improvement. He is against selling his products in bulk and only sells in bulk if people notice benefits from his donor. Like SFBay said he is very strict on his methods. He only tells people to store in dry ice. He was against me storing one of the samples in the freezer because it was only -20 degrees instead of -80 degrees celsius.
 
Initially this was commented under someone else thread. I see Michael has placed it under it's own thread now. This was not my intention.
 
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