“Human progress” shouldn’t have happened: discussion on how civilization advancement has made us sicker and pathogenic to the world. General health

[IsthmusSIBO]

https://maximiliankohler.medium.com/a-critical-look-at-the-current-and-longstanding-ethos-of-childbearing-the-repercussions-its-been-6e37f7f7b13f#02b1

https://maximiliankohler.medium.com/eugenics-past-present-and-future-74d0ea5998b4

humans never evolved to live in the current world, nor to be completely rational, we evolved to live as hunter gatherers on African savanna, in groups no larger than 150 people

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I have been a regular member and reader of this forum and its associated wiki for a few months now. I have since learned how the human microbiome is capable of modulating everything in our bodies, even our brains and the mind itself. At the same time, everything we do affects our microbiome as well, ranging from our habits, diet and even our own thoughts.

With this, I have come to agree with Michael in how the decline in human microbial diversity is most likely behind most human self-inflicted suffering. Yet, one possibility that I haven’t seen discussed is in how this decline could very well be blamed on the development of advanced civilization, aka “human progress”, and how this phenomenon has ironically driven the current chronic illness global epidemic.

Ever since the beginning of agriculture in multiple cradles of civilization, most of humanity became sedentary and shifted from the mostly nomadic/hunter-gatherer lifestyle that was prevalent for millions of years in most members of the Homo genus.

Here are my arguments to believe that progress shouldn’t have happened, supporting the idea that Otto Kretschmer had said above about how we thrived better as hunter-gatherers:

• Technological progress has made us less reliant on our own bodies to survive, leading to generational increases in deconditioning, microbiome decline and chronic illness. Medical progress and antibiotic overuse come to mind.
• Pollution and urbanization made for our growth has disrupted multiple ecosystems and accelerated climate change. Thus, ironically, we have become a chronic illness to our planet. This is arguable though, as everything synthetic we have created comes from nature itself, and climate change might just be an inmune response of the Earth, that will be over when our species and many others die.
• There is a big correlation with technology and modern society promoting a decline in the ability to enjoy and be present in reality. Something like the concept of African time comes to mind.

Can’t we consider the idea that despite the higher mortality rates we suffered through the millions of years evolving in Africa, our species lives were more fulfilling and joyful, back when chronic illness was not a life sentence? When your time came, it came. And people made the best of their short lives. There is even the argument that societies were egalitarian. There was no gender wars. Everyone was valuable. And in the rare case someone did become chronically ill, they were cared for.

Then the population bottlenecks came. And in the Neolithic, when the transition of nomads turning to sedentarism became all the rage, the ones who were better at hoarding resources reproduced more than the egalitarian ones. Instead of a renewed era for our species growing from this, this drove our own slow extinction further by ignorance and greed caused from our genetic lack of diversity.

While the pursuit of progress was an ideal that helped civilizations in the Northern Hemisphere survive by adapting to the changing seasons (specifically winter) through long term planning and thinking, it is now a mechanism that is no longer helping us survive effectively. People focus on the details but fail to see the big picture (Michael’s experiences support this).

It’s a curse that individuals of our species can see where we went wrong and know that the very idea that makes us proud of our species “achievements” is the same that predicted our downfall long before we knew it. I just don’t see how the pursuit of progress couldn’t have led to the comfort/weakness we are plagued with now.

 

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Blaming progress is a misnomer. If progress had improved our microbiome, you would be singing to a different tune. In fact, if it weren't for progress, we probably wouldn't be talking about the microbiome at all. A better argument would have been that there wasn't enough progress in the right fields. The thing is, most people do not suffer sufficiently for things like the microbiome to garner attention. So, what people put their resources towards is influenced by their circumstances. Ignorance coupled with apathy is the real culprit here. If there were less ignorance, maybe we would have progressed in such a way that would not have reduced diversity. Note: I leave open for the possibility for evil intent.

It should be noted, that the tribes of hunter gatherers that still exist today with the most microbial diversity are said to not live as long as modern societies. This may or may not act as a counter argument to microbial diversity.

 

[IsthmusSIBO]

the tribes of hunter gatherers that still exist today with the most microbial diversity are said to not live as long as modern societies. This may or may not act as a counter argument to microbial diversity.

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Danger from pathogens and predators and climate is higher, but I am pretty sure quality of life (for their standards) is higher. Advanced civilizations overrate long life. Example: What is the point of living for 60 years thanks to modern medicine with ME/CFS? Yes, a patient would have a normal life expectancy, but their quality of life would be miserable.

Blaming progress is a misnomer. If progress had improved our microbiome, you would be singing to a different tune. In fact, if it weren't for progress, we probably wouldn't be talking about the microbiome at all.

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There is no need for knowledge of microbiome diversity to actually have it. My point is, these less advanced societies have better physical capabilities and protection against chronic illness, and better diets, while having no idea about microbes or even caring about progress (African time). And my other arguments is that the so-called progress achieved by civilization hasn’t really improved the human condition at all. All these academic disciplines, advanced tech, drugs, gene therapy and bullshit, just for researchers and physicians to miss a major but obvious factor for an entire century, if not more.

Then again, we are definitely a more demanding crowd than the average person because we are all sick AND know the impact of the microbiome. So maybe a 100 years to understand this very complex thing can be considered good progress in hindsight. Pretty sure we all would have just liked to not be born in this era, where we are cursed to know what’s wrong but being significantly hindered in getting the best treatment.